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Yamna DJELLOULI

Biologist, Professor Emeritus of the University of Le Mans - Researcher in the Joint Research Unit "Space and Society" of the Centre National de la Recherche Scientifique (CNRS) - France

As a biologist and geographer, you claim a particular interest in the social dimension of the environment, could you explain your approach to us?

It is several decades of experience, both pedagogical since I am a professor and research since I supervise doctoral students in biological sciences and physical and social geography, that have led me to this awareness. I have also done a lot of field research around the world.

This has allowed me to see and understand that ultimately, what we see on the ground, what we appreciate, what we value, what we seek, what we distinguish, what we find, what we demonstrate with scientific methods is extremely important but, these results can only be fully supported and confirmed when we take into account the dimension of space and time but also the societies and actors who are the first concerned.
If we want to achieve success in our approaches and actions, it will be through stakeholders.  

In concrete terms, how do you manage to make this link between scientific research and taking into account the reality of stakeholders?  

My experience leads me to use scientific methodologies in biology and geography for example, but I combine them with an analysis of innovative social actions observed in the field. We are talking here about very diverse actors, NGOs, associations, municipalities, citizens, elected officials... When they want to succeed in a project, they must sit around a table to share, exchange and consult on all the parameters of a problem, in order to achieve concrete results.


If a chain is missing, the chain is broken.
I would like to point out that I am talking about work being done at the watershed level. This geographical unit is extremely important, because it allows a real transversal view of a situation, whatever the watershed. Small, large, in a country of the North or South. I have extensive field experience in the Maghreb countries, Algeria, Morocco and Tunisia, but also in many European countries.

In a scientific approach, we wonder about the problems encountered, on this scale. We take a look at the situation, we collect data. For example, in the event of flooding, we will not just measure water levels and flow patterns. We will also study the overlapping of themes and actors, with their respective specificities.
When there are actors along the course of a river, individuals or industrialists, we will study their practices and then discuss with them solutions to avoid a future disaster, explaining to them, for example, why they must install their piles differently on the banks, modify certain installations.

We can have negative reactions from people who say they are in control of their property. We must therefore have an educational role and present them with the risks associated with the elements. A fall of trees and the direction of the winds can generate a dam on the space they own.

What role should elected officials play in this type of process?
 

Under French law, a riverside resident owns half of the river's course. A person cannot do anything about it. We must therefore encourage the actors to think and act together.
It is important that there is a municipality that is aware of its territory. Elected officials have a great responsibility and whatever their political tendencies, they must work together.

In the Le Mans region (France) where the Sarthe River flows, for example, it was an association of local residents that brought elected representatives from different political parties together and, working together, rather than separately as they used to do. Citizens who had suffered from floods created this association to make their voices heard. Through this initiative, they have had access to clear and accurate information and advice on what to do and what not to do. Everyone was able to understand how they can contribute to the building.

It is the residents of the Sarthe region who have managed to get elected officials to work together at all local, departmental and regional levels with the association. The most important adverse opinions were encountered with the state services. Some are sometimes too squarely logical. They offer classic solutions that are not adapted to the territory.

 

What about the role and responsibility of companies, an important stakeholder, subject to economic imperatives?

In the catchment areas, there are indeed also user-companies. For example, repeated flooding can have a very significant economic impact on them.


In Le Mans, the work of the association and elected officials with companies has led to investments on their part to upgrade or relocate certain infrastructures. This has limited their level of flooding and improved the quality of the shoreline.

Together, we reached consensus decisions. Depending on the country, laws require companies to take measures to reduce pollution. Standards 9001 and 14001 require them to take environmental considerations into account in their production. This was a major step forward for them and for other residents of the same territory.
In a watershed, where rivers are also a source of drinking water for local residents, political choices about the distribution of drinking water are very important.

Some municipalities do not entrust the production and distribution of drinking water to large companies but prefer to manage their own water. These municipalities are equipping themselves with laboratories, treatment plants and recruiting professionals in the sector. This is a strategic choice because, as already mentioned, territorial anchoring and knowledge of stakeholders are extremely important in water management.

Why does this human and social aspect of water management seem less advanced and more complex to deal with?

Some say that sustainable development is a hackneyed term that no longer means much. I do not agree, I think that in this area, the social part is as important as the environmental part.
I, who have conducted many thesis on this topic, can say that on the environmental side, we already have a lot of things on the environment. Reliable methods of study and evaluation exist. It is the social part that poses the most problems because we tend to forget the human being, yet he is there to help find solutions.
I think it is a problem of information, communication and consultation. However, by taking these parameters into account, many conflicts can be avoided.
On the territory I have already mentioned, there must have been a dry reservoir in a small town near the town of Le Mans. We witnessed an outcry from the Mayor and some residents of this small town who felt they were being sacrificed to protect the largest city.

Today, all stakeholders have an interest in thinking more globally. We must show territorial solidarity. This social concept has made its way, but we must constantly explain and educate with all the actors.
Territorial solidarity means knowing how to share the resource.  
At the moment, I am working on the European COMICC project, on adaptation to climate change at the level of river basins. In this project, carried out with Austrian and German researchers, I am responsible for the French part and more precisely, for the Mediterranean area composed of Algeria, Tunisia and Morocco.
I therefore work mainly on arid and semi-arid areas. In the future, this region will be the one where the most important water access problems on the planet will be encountered.  
Climate change will generate a very strong increase in the lack of fresh water.


Faced with this, societies will have to find solutions and my job is to find solutions for mitigation and adaptation.  
How can we move from a daily water consumption of 100 litres to 80 or 50 litres for drinking, eating and maintaining good hygiene?
Currently, we are conducting field surveys with the local populations concerned.
This work is carried out with scientific colleagues from local laboratories, doctoral students and students. We will conduct a qualitative survey among elected officials and a social and economic survey among families, farmers and ranchers.

It is interesting to note that some people are very aware of the situation. On the other hand, others claim to live in the present moment and do not wish to project themselves into the future, even in the short term.
Our role as scientists will be to make observations, but also to sound the alarm. Once our research is completed, in each territory studied, we will organize a large gathering with all stakeholders to share their experiences. It is also important to report and share the results of our studies and research. The responsibility of scientists lies there, too!

How could a network like INBO contribute to enhancing these social and economic dimensions of water management?

I have known and participated in INBO meetings for about 10 years. What seems very interesting to me is that INBO is a network of actors. There are therefore no very high political stakes.
People participate to share their experiences, their questions, their observations, the tools they have created. Everyone can therefore develop their knowledge in this network.
During the various round tables of the Conferences, I think that INBO should address and enhance in an even more significant way the social and economic dimensions of water management at the basin level. These dimensions must be made even more visible.
Scientists should not be ashamed to talk about these aspects because we do science with human beings!

I have known and participated in INBO meetings for about 10 years. What seems very interesting to me is that INBO is a network of actors. There are therefore no very high political stakes.

People participate to share their experiences, their questions, their observations, the tools they have created. Everyone can therefore develop their knowledge in this network.

During the various round tables of the Conferences, I think that INBO should address and enhance in an even more significant way the social and economic dimensions of water management at the basin level. These dimensions must be made even more visible.

Scientists should not be ashamed to talk about these aspects because we do science with human beings!

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Interview conducted during the EUROPE-INBO 2019 Conference - From 17 to 20 June 2019 in Lahti (Finland) - © RIOB 2019